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TRANSCRIPT OF NOVEMBER 26th FRC CHAT [11:49] * peter_ball_010 has joined #restorechat [11:57] * Kitambi has joined #restorechat [12:00] * lk_jensen has joined #restorechat [12:01] * SharakoLunarWol1 has joined #restorechat [12:02] * Jayskin has joined #restorechat [12:03] * lk_jensen has left #restorechat [12:03] <SharakoLunarWol1> morning everyone [12:03] <Jayskin> morning all [12:04] <Kitambi> 'lo [12:04] * nf has joined #restorechat [12:05] <Kitambi> eh, I tried :p [12:06] <nf> Hi [12:06] <peter_ball_010> Just checking that i am with you all [12:06] <Jayskin> seems ok here [12:07] <SharakoLunarWol1> so how is everyone doing? [12:07] <sozy1> HI all [12:09] <peter_ball_010> Has anyone here reached thie desired goal ? [12:09] <Kitambi> not even close [12:09] <nf> Not me - just 2 months into it. [12:09] <SharakoLunarWol1> no i have ben at it for 6 mounths now i am using a dtr. i am a ci3 still i was a ci2-3 [12:09] <Jayskin> been restoring for a few months........ getting bunched skin at the corona now [12:10] <Kitambi> I've got these big fat wrinkles behind the corona, which frustrate me by not spilling over [12:11] <peter_ball_010> Those wrinkles will in time [12:11] <nf> Hopefully soon they will. [12:11] <Kitambi> indeed [12:12] <Jayskin> I guess patience is the key word [12:12] <peter_ball_010> have you all read Jim Bigelow's Bood the 'joy of uncircumcising ?/ [12:12] <nf> I have glanced through it. [12:12] <SharakoLunarWol1> i am curently reading it i am on ch 12 or 13 [12:13] <Jayskin> not yet [12:13] <Kitambi> I have read it, yes [12:13] <Jayskin> recommended reading? [12:13] <Kitambi> I'd recommend it, yes [12:14] <SharakoLunarWol1> its realy a amazing book if you can deal with all the down parts i have ben reading it sence aug [12:14] <peter_ball_010> I think the more youknow about the subject the better you do [12:14] <peter_ball_010> the down parts make gruesome reading [12:14] <Jayskin> down parts? [12:14] <peter_ball_010> Mens voices in the side of the pages [12:16] <Kitambi> the book is available for purchase and download at http://www.norm.org/joy.html [12:16] <Kitambi> it's $10, and you likely can't find it at the library [12:16] <peter_ball_010> my library wouldnt stock it but agreed to accept it as agift from me! [12:17] <SharakoLunarWol1> yeah i carry my book to and from school i cant put it down i have had so much inturest i may sugest it as reading materal at the comunity college i go to [12:17] <Kitambi> yes, my library's website asked me if I meant "joy of encompassing" [12:17] <peter_ball_010> then they hid it on a top shelf besides books on Native Funeral customs [12:17] <SharakoLunarWol1> i actualy got one at my local libery through a book loan from calli [12:18] <anteater> Is there an agenda for this chat, or is it open to questions? [12:18] <peter_ball_010> luxky you [12:18] <peter_ball_010> Open to questions i have been told [12:18] <SharakoLunarWol1> so what kind of dr are you? [12:19] <nf> Peter - now that there is more of an understanding of the anatomy of the intact penis - how long before the medical profession in North America catches on that circimision is wrong? [12:19] <anteater> Cool. I'm interested in surgery to tighten the foreskin after finishing. I saw a comment on NORM-UK's website that said the results are often too tight or too loose -- can you speak more about this? How many men do you know that have done this? What techniques were used? Etc. [12:19] <peter_ball_010> Once they can find a differnet way of making money ? [12:20] <nf> That's probably true as pathetic as it may be. [12:20] <peter_ball_010> I only heard one man speak of his experience and he had to have 3 goes at getting it right [12:21] <peter_ball_010> One cut is enough for most of us [12:21] <Kitambi> I heard that the tip will usually tighten up on its own [12:21] <peter_ball_010> there are muscle fibres in the scrotum and the shaft skin that help to close the tip [12:21] <anteater> Hmmm. You've completed your restoration, correct? How well does your foreskin stay closed over your glans? [12:22] <nf> I have read in the FRC forum that the new fs thins out and tightens up over a couple of years after your finished. [12:22] <peter_ball_010> Perfect unless it is a vert hot day and i am nude on a beach [12:23] <peter_ball_010> nf that is very interesting [12:23] <Jayskin> would you recommend restoration 24/7 or cycling? [12:24] <peter_ball_010> I think cyvling is more realistic - as yet no convincing proof that 24/7 is best [12:24] * anteater Quit (Quit: anteater) [12:24] <Jayskin> that's what I have been doing with fairly good results so far [12:25] <nf> I find it impossible to do it at night anyway (at least in these early stages) [12:25] <peter_ball_010> nj/ What method are u using [12:25] <SharakoLunarWol1> same here i tug in the wakeing ours and cover in the sleeping its just slow going [12:26] <Jayskin> I have been trying at night but with constant erections it tends to hurt [12:26] <nf> Three - TLC tugger, manual tugging and just started trying dtr device [12:27] <Jayskin> TLC tugger and manual here........ thinking of ordering dtr as well for more inner growth [12:27] <nf> I only tried tlc tugger at night. Now I just retain with skin cone at night - it comes off too. [12:27] <peter_ball_010> the TLC tugger with taping up toward the shoulder should be ol at night [12:28] <peter_ball_010> ol=ok [12:28] <SharakoLunarWol1> i use a man hood at night my self it keeps it forword but the problem i have frequantly is there is velcrow at the base and it fits my fnacid cercumfrance but not my erect [12:28] <Jayskin> that's what I have tried but the skin pulls too much when erect ***** Carrying Out Hourly Online Check...... (190) The Backup Is Up To Date. [12:29] <SharakoLunarWol1> its snowing here 0.0 [12:29] <peter_ball_010> tuga hoy and TLC both are quite good with erections as long as the penis can pont upwards [12:29] <nf> I didn't tape but used the straps and also with no tugging - erections just pop it off. I think that it is probably because I don't have enough skin yet. [12:30] <peter_ball_010> could be true [12:30] <Kitambi> the cone will stay on when you get more skin [12:30] <Kitambi> mine stayed on all last night [12:31] <Kitambi> and only rarely falls off, really [12:31] <SharakoLunarWol1> i have tryed o rings but not enough skin yet [12:31] <nf> Peter - what do you think of the plunger type of devices like the dtr and Cat II - they do seem to concentrate tension on inner skin? [12:32] <peter_ball_010> True. I thinkthey do a good job but personally i found them uncomfortable [12:33] <Jayskin> maybe that's my problem as well - not enough skin yet [12:33] <peter_ball_010> the old fasioned pill tube and tape is good for starters [12:34] <Jayskin> I just find urination in public such a hassel with taped methods [12:34] <peter_ball_010> The pill tube is great you can pee down the middle [12:36] <Jayskin> can you leave the tube attached for a few days? [12:36] <nf> I find the tlc tugger eventually slips off even in the day - not enough skin. However, the dtr seems to stay on. The hols in the gripper help - but they also can cause some discomfort. I just reduce tension and take short breaks and it seems ok. [12:37] <nf> Peter - what do you think of the theories that tugging in combination with heat can accelerate results. [12:37] <peter_ball_010> Jayskin Better to take it off once a day for a a wash and let the skin recover [12:38] <Jayskin> that's what i thought [12:38] <peter_ball_010> Those that have tried are very convinced that it helps [12:38] <peter_ball_010> I think it may be good [12:40] <nf> When I manual tug I do it while taking a hot bath - too early to tell if it helps but it seems that the skin is more supple and stretches easy - appears to be good. [12:40] <Jayskin> what ci would you say you are? and how long did you restore? [12:40] <peter_ball_010> sorry I have forgotten the definitions c [12:41] <nf> c1 to c10 c1 is tightly cut and c10 is intact with complete coverage with erection [12:41] <Jayskin> do you have full glans coverage? and how long did it take? [12:41] <peter_ball_010> Can I say that I have full coverage when erect but of course the skin will retract shortly after that =C10 i have just been told [12:42] <Jayskin> that's impressive.......... I'm hoping for the same [12:43] <peter_ball_010> It took me 18 months to get 2/3 coverage and 3 years for reliable full flaccid coverage [12:43] <Kitambi> how loose were you when you started? [12:43] <Jayskin> may I ask what method(s) you used? [12:45] <peter_ball_010> Micropore tape initially, pill tubes, EZ briefly, tugahoy and the most useful for me - the TLC tugger [12:47] <SharakoLunarWol1> how do you deal with the ignorant people out there i find about 30 % of the people out there are igronent 45% are oppen and intrusted and 15 % are nutral [12:47] <peter_ball_010> I started late in life so [12:48] <peter_ball_010> I was fairly loose but couldnt pull enough skin over the glans to masturbate [12:48] <nf> That is pretty tight. [12:49] <peter_ball_010> That became possible after about 2 months of restoration and gave me a fantastic orgasm [12:49] <nf> I thought I was very tight but I could always force the skin over my glans. [12:50] <peter_ball_010> How we differ [12:50] <Jayskin> I thought I was tight as well but I could almost cover my glans completely with skin while masturbating..... it was tight but I could do it [12:50] <nf> same here [12:51] <peter_ball_010> then you should do very well restoring [12:51] <Jayskin> after a few months of restoring now, it's much easier and feels much better especially if the head is moist [12:52] <nf> slw - the ignorance is not the peoples fault - it is a problem with our current society. I was also ignorant until not too long ago. We need to learn to speak out more on this subject - but it is not easy. [12:52] <Jayskin> I'm hoping I'll do well restoring........ I'm very excited about the final outcome [12:52] <peter_ball_010> Persistance is the name of the game [12:53] <Jayskin> yes, I'm realizing that [12:53] <nf> I have noticed that by keeping covered and using vitame E lotion to keep the glans moist has made a dramatic improvement in sensitiviy and in orgasm intensity. [12:54] <peter_ball_010> keeping the glans moist is defitinitely a good thing [12:54] <nf> I can't wait until I just I don't have to do anything special - everything just natural. [12:55] <peter_ball_010> Its a fantastic state believe me [12:55] <Jayskin> me too........ can't wait to have a naturally moist glans [12:56] <nf> Thanks - that is very motivating - the process is sooo slooow it is easy to get frustrated. I need the goal to be reinforced. [12:56] * masion has joined #restorechat [12:56] <masion> hi,<same one from NY, please [12:56] <FRC-Protector2> Status: No Op's ( @ ) [12:57] <peter_ball_010> I hope all you tuggers are also doing your best to spread the word that circumcision is a bad thing [12:57] * masion Quit (Quit: masion) [12:57] <SharakoLunarWol1> i do i tell everyone i can i show them statistics in the joy book [12:58] <nf> I agree we need to - but it is not an easy thing to discuss in public - good for you SLW [12:58] <Jayskin> for sure.......... circumcision is a violation of your body [12:58] <SharakoLunarWol1> but there are the igronent out there who beleave they have the right to mudalater there kids ... i get so angry [12:58] <nf> It should be like in Sweden where it is illegal unless there is a medical need. [12:59] <nf> Don't blame the parents - they don't know. [12:59] <peter_ball_010> Alan Cuming has just become our Patron - he is intact and proud to tell people [12:59] <Jayskin> I know I was told it was for cleanliness......... that's bs [13:00] <SharakoLunarWol1> mine was done so i can be like daddy but i couldent be more diffrent [13:00] <nf> One thing that I wonder about is "informed consent". The medical profession is not informing parents of the 100% guaranteed negative consequences of circimcision. Not that this knowledge is available aren't they obligated to tell. [13:01] <nf> Now this knowledge... [13:01] <peter_ball_010> They should of course but not all medica believe it [13:01] <peter_ball_010> A lot of medics are cirucmcised themselves [13:02] <nf> Isn't "informed consent" a legal requirement? [13:02] <peter_ball_010> Yes But what needs to told is still abit woolly [13:02] <SharakoLunarWol1> i have met doctors who think i am crazy for wanting to restore. i havent gon back to see them [13:03] <nf> I guess the information isn't yet widespread - isn't there a mechanism to spread new information to doctors [13:03] <Jayskin> I think most doctors in North America are like that [13:03] <peter_ball_010> I gave my doctor a copy of a video i made about restoration |he did nt comment [13:04] <nf> Sounds like he wasn't interested. [13:05] <SharakoLunarWol1> yeah i find the less money a dr makes the more they are willing to help. at least from my pbservation [13:05] <peter_ball_010> He did agree to let me show him my restoration and seem ed quite interested [13:05] * mel_senior has joined #restorechat [13:05] <nf> That's a good sign. [13:06] <peter_ball_010> I urge my restorers in the UK to tell their Doctors what there doing for info. They are a bit bashful [13:07] <nf> I am bashful - I don't see my doctor very often - I think I'll wait until I am almost done before I go for my next physical - see if he notices. [13:08] <SharakoLunarWol1> is your ferum more promanet after restoring. i allways have problems with that word [13:08] <mel_senior> hello all.... [13:08] <SharakoLunarWol1> hello [13:08] <peter_ball_010> You had better say something about it if only to get his reaction [13:09] <nf> Okay [13:09] <peter_ball_010> Your frenum or frenulum will remain as before unless you damage it [13:09] <nf> can restoration damage it?? [13:10] <SharakoLunarWol1> well mine is visable when i am flacid but it is not visable when i am hard [13:10] <nf> I don't want to mess up what little I have left. [13:10] * Michael_the_choirboy has joined #restorechat [13:10] <Jayskin> my frenulum is quite evident and sometimes it pulls a little when I'm restoring [13:10] <peter_ball_010> Yes its possible to tear it - make sure there is a notch in devices to accommodate the frenulum [13:11] <FRC-Protector2> Status: No Op's ( @ ) [13:11] <peter_ball_010> then it is unlikely to come to any harm [13:11] <Jayskin> I'm using the TLC tugger with no frenulum notch......... I thought that was only for intact men [13:11] <peter_ball_010> Jayskin-- be careful [13:12] <SharakoLunarWol1> i have seen guys with big frenulum is there a way to make it mor promanent or that [13:12] <peter_ball_010> You might be able to cut a groove in the cone [13:12] <nf> My TLC doesn't have a notch either - but I think what is left of my frenulum is small enough it won't make a difference. [13:13] <Jayskin> mine is actually quite tight around the frenulum [13:13] <mel_senior> might i ask a different question? [13:13] <nf> SLW - I think you are stuck with what you have (as we all are). [13:13] <peter_ball_010> a big frenulum is Gods gif you cant improve on youve got [13:13] <peter_ball_010> mel- go ahead [13:13] <SharakoLunarWol1> ok [13:14] <mel_senior> hello, i wonder, is there any movement in any "circle" to conduct some REAL research in terms of what methods, etc... work? [13:14] <peter_ball_010> Not that i am aware of [13:14] <mel_senior> you are in UK, right? [13:15] <nf> Mel - the device chart is a good start. [13:15] <peter_ball_010> The difficulty is that research requires control- men not restorina to compare etc [13:15] <mel_senior> would UK or USA "granting agencies" be receptive to inquires about this? [13:15] <peter_ball_010> Yes i am in the UK [13:15] <mel_senior> yes, controls would be the "key"... [13:16] <mel_senior> i mean, there is probably grant $ avail to look at impacts of breast reduction surgery.... [13:17] <nf> It would be very dificult - even one person with one device will not follow the same routine consistently. [13:17] <peter_ball_010> the likelyhood of getting groups of men to use one method constistently to compare with another group using a different method is zilch [13:17] <mel_senior> what recommendations would you give to "us" (as the voice of restoration) to push forward an agenda to get some grant money tossed at teh problem? [13:18] <peter_ball_010> i think the research need to be into tissue expansion [13:19] <nf> There is research in this are but not specifically for foreskin restoration. [13:19] <mel_senior> humm.... i guess that is prob what is going on for breast reconstruct. surg.? [13:19] <peter_ball_010> We already have discovered that the surgeons that use tissue expansion devices dont look further than the instruction book [13:19] <nf> I think for general issues - burn victims, accident victims etc. [13:20] <nf> That is not good. [13:20] <peter_ball_010> If we knew more about tissue expansion and growth we could easily apply to our needs [13:21] <nf> I did see an article on tissue expansion and use of heat to accelerate the process (as mentioned earlier) [13:21] <mel_senior> indeed, i guess using the ideas developed for other applications could help us move forward in the proper direction [13:21] <peter_ball_010> there could a future in collecting data from everones restoration diaries [13:22] <mel_senior> yes, i was thinking the same thing (collecting data sets) [13:22] <mel_senior> i do not want to sound "selfegrandizing" (spelling), but i recently sat down (a LONG SIT!) and complied ~6 years of data on my own restorating [13:23] <mel_senior> it was a very LARGE undertaking (if you are interested, i could get you a PDF of the report) [13:23] <nf> 6 years - I hope you are finished. [13:23] <peter_ball_010> A less mentioned reason for not cirucmcisng some-one is that his foreskin might be needed for grafting on his body after an accident [13:24] <sozy1> Colecting data sets, while not as powerful a method as controlled experimentation, should over time provide useful info [13:24] <mel_senior> re: 6 years = done? i gained enough skin in ~2 years to keep me happy, but i'm still trying (on and off) for erect coverage... my own Holy Grail: [13:24] <peter_ball_010> mel senior= How mant pages o pdf woul that entail > [13:24] <nf> If I had a foreskin a would rather they take the skin from somewhere else - thank you very much. [13:25] <peter_ball_010> If you lost your eyelid you wouldnt say that [13:25] <mel_senior> in total, it is ~8 pages of text (written like a scientific research paper) + 2 pages (1 table, 1 figure) [13:26] <peter_ball_010> I would like to read it peter@pjb.eclips.co.uk [13:26] <mel_senior> i'll send it along.... if for some reason you do not get the e-mail, the PDF is also listed on the FRC site (thanks to STEVE!) [13:27] <peter_ball_010> than ks [13:28] <peter_ball_010> I have to leave you guys shortly my supper is getting cold Any last questions [13:28] <nf> Thanks Peter - it was an interesting chat. [13:29] <mel_senior> pdf is the "cyber mail"! [13:29] <mel_senior> thanks for your time and guidance [13:29] <peter_ball_010> I enjoyed chatting to all of you. Good luck and carry on tugging [13:29] <nf> PS I probably would choose the eyelid. ***** Carrying Out Hourly Online Check...... (191) [13:29] * peter_ball_010 Quit (Quit: peter_ball_010) |